Friday, 25 September 2009

UNuclear Israel?

I recently read an article that made my day:

Gulf News 18 Sept 2009

Vienna: Arab states in the UN nuclear assembly on Friday won narrow approval of a resolution urging Israel to put all its atomic sites under UN inspection and join the Non-Proliferation Treaty.

The Jewish state deplored the measure for singling it out while many of its neighbours remained hostile to its existence, and said it would not cooperate with it. The non-binding resolution, which passed for the first time in 18 years of attempts thanks to more developing nation votes, voiced concern about "Israeli nuclear capabilities" and urged the International Atomic Energy Agency to tackle the issue.


So, fanatic racist Israel can have nuclear weapons (and not much nuclear power) and (equally?) fanatic Iran is not allowed to have any of the above? Perhaps it's worth noting that Israel is Jewish and Iran is Muslim. Moreover, Iran is generally anti-American.

Before the vote, US Ambassador Glyn Davies said the resolution was "redundant ... Such an approach is highly politicized and does not address the complexities at play regarding crucial nuclear-related issues in the Middle East."


Redundant or crucial to peace Mr Ambassador? Let's not forget that the US uses its veto powers (only 5 countries in the world have that power) very frequently to protect Israel:

"Washington used its veto 32 times to shield Israel from critical draft resolutions between 1972 and 1997. This constituted nearly half of the total of 69 U.S. vetoes cast since the founding of the U.N."


(Source: By Donald Neff, Former Time Magazine Bureau Chief, Israel, link)

Typical hypocrisy from America in favour of Israel. However, this is a good day for justice and a good day for Palestine.

32 comments:

A Blessing in Tragedy said...

I've always said that all Muslim countries should leave the UN. Unless the "security" council and veto powers are abolished, the UN is a joke.

And as long as daddy US has Israel's side in EVERYTHING with this blind faith (I wonder if there is no magic at play here) there is no point being part of it.

Solomon2 said...

Posted a response to your questions at my blog, BuJ.

Al-ain Rose said...

Guyz why are you bothering ur self with politics? it never bothers me. I hate it .. It's of no concern to me.

Solomon2 said...

Because all too often, Rose, Arab politics hurts non-Arabs, especially Jews. That bothers me.

Inspire Your Mind said...

BuJ.. Have you watched Larry King's interview with AmadeNijad today ?

BuJ said...

hala IYM no i haven't watched the interview. but i will google it now..thanks!

BuJ said...

hala IYM, i checked the net and couldn't find the latest A-jadi larry king interview. the only one i found was dated exactly a year ago. I wonder, do you have a link pls?

ABIT,

I agree with you on leaving.. but I don't think that all Muslim countries are behaving as proper Muslims, so we should look at ourselves first, and in the meantime try to get the best out of something like the UN.

I believe the US is hurting a lot as a result of supporting Israel, and this blind support won't last more than 5 years according to one authour, look out for my blog post on this in a few days inshalla.

Solomon2,

Your opinions as a Jew or Zionist or even as a human are very welcome here, but so are we entitled to our opinions. However, I would like to reply to you with facts rather than opinions.

1- Jewish/Zionist politics hurts Arabs more than Arab politics hurts Jews. All of this is without mention of the Jewish army (IDF) that is stronger than all our armies put together.

2- Since the dawn of Islam, Jews and Christians were protected religions and we respected that since we consider Jesus, Moses, Abraham, etc all Muslim prophets. Judaisim of course does not even recognise Islam.

3- Jews are a prosecuted people for millenia. However, the Jews were rarely prosecuted for being Jewish by the Arabs. Look a the Jewish communities in Muslim Spain, Morocco, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. However this all shattered when you decared your illegal state by force, and thus sealed the fate of Jews in Arab lands. However, we have a memory that stretches far earlier than 1948. The world calls it history.

Rose,

Politics is dirty. However we should be aware of it since it impacts on our lives. Directly and indirectly.
هذا يعتبر نوع من العلم, و الرسول حثنا أن نطلب العلم ولو في الصين

The Contentious Centrist said...

"However, the Jews were rarely prosecuted for being Jewish by the Arabs. Look a the Jewish communities in Muslim Spain, Morocco, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc."

My knowledge is this history is slightly different to yours:

"At various times, Jews in Muslim lands were able to live in relative peace and thrive culturally and economically. The position of the Jews was never secure, however, and changes in the political or social climate would often lead to persecution, violence and death. Jews were generally viewed with contempt by their Muslim neighbors; peaceful coexistence between the two groups involved the subordination and degradation of the Jews.

When Jews were perceived as having achieved too comfortable a position in Islamic society, anti-Semitism would surface, often with devastating results: On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.(6)

Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.(7)

Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).(8)"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html

But let me guess your response: this history is just Zionist propaganda,right?

So here is another source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule#Middle_Ages

BuJ said...

CC,

I thank you for your historical diatribe.. however, the typical methods that have failed the test of time have been used here, mainly taking things out of context.

Islam does not force anyone to convert on the pain of death. Religion is not bad it's the men that interpret it that usually are.

You mention murder and pillage of your people and yet you quote Jewish rather than neutral sources. For your information, after all the murder and pillage of modern Israel, Arabic countries such as Morocco and Bahrain continue to have Jews in senior political positions in their respective countries.

I'm sure you heard of the Sudanese Muslim lady that was jailed for wearing trousers recently. That's wrong, but it's nothing wrong with Islam, but rather with the corrupt people in that part of Sudan. Surely you're aware of many millions of muslim men and women who continue to live peaceful lives while wearing trousers in their respective countries.

Humans by default are not perfect and we are bound to do mistakes. This includes Muslims and Jews. I'm trying to look at the big picture rather than dwell on insignificant details.

The Contentious Centrist said...

"For your information, after all the murder and pillage of modern Israel, Arabic countries such as Morocco and Bahrain continue to have Jews in senior political positions in their respective countries."

What a strange rationale.

Austria had a Jewish Chancellor of Austria from 1970 to 1983. Is this somehow a denial of the Holocaust?

Russia has a Jewish president; does that somehow erase from history the anti-Jewish pogroms in Russia?

What's the matter with you? Can't you follow up a simple straightforward logical argument without making outlandish connections between one set of facts and another, totally irrelevant set of facts?

Do you deny that these events took place? Do you mean that every history written by Jews is a lie and a falsification of history?

Media Junkie said...

probably a very off-tangent remark, but i don't think i'd add much to an already interesting debate in comments. but i'll say it anyhow.

i believe that religion is what got everyone in this mess in the first place. because organized religion, for the most part, does not allow tolerance. else why would everyone fight wars, launch crusades, make decrees about conversion if they were fine with letting people be?

because organized religion thrives on converting, conversion, they can never be 100% tolerant. and that's where the trouble begins.

BuJ said...

CC,

Please, I do not have the time and energy to keep repeating myself with you. You're very welcome to enlighten us with your opinions here but do not call me illogical when in fact your logic consists of throwing random information hoping it'll all stick.

"Do you deny that these events took place? Do you mean that every history written by Jews is a lie and a falsification of history?"

Why are Zionists so obssessed with denial? I am not Ahmedinejad and I do not deny the holocaust or Israeli massacres like the one in Gaza. Innocents died all over.

Please take a moment to see what I'm trying to say before launching your attacks. Actually please take as many moments as you need.

Media Junkie,

hello and welcome :)

To be honest I couldn't agree with you more! I wouldn't say that religion is the source of all evil (even though I think there is an element of truth in it).. I am however a big believer that all religions are good, but it is man that corrupts the noble message of any religion.

The Contentious Centrist said...

I take it you have no way of explaining how the fact that "Arabic countries such as Morocco and Bahrain continue to have Jews in senior political positions in their respective countries." is somehow supposed to convince us that the history of violence against Jews in the lands of Islam did not happen.

Inspire Your Mind said...

Here is a link BuJ:
http://dprogram.net/2009/09/26/video-larry-king-ahmadinejad-asked-about-election-protests-in-iran/

This is not the entire interview, re-check CNN website maybe tomorrow you should find it there.

Dubai Jazz said...

I'm a little disappointed in Abu Hussein; the condition for ceasing expansion of the settlements has been dropped under pressure.

Paraglider said...

BuJ - I like the way you conduct your discussions. Thanks :)

rosh said...

"I believe the US is hurting a lot as a result of supporting Israel"

Very true BuJ. Americans in general are aware of this, more so since 9/11 - they've been asking the 'why' question. Very interesting debate BuJ.

BuJ said...

IYM,

Thanks so much.. I saw the whole interview with Larry Al Malik.. wow.. I expected there to be more fireworks.. I would say Mahmoud sounded like a broken man.. he sounded tired, tired and subdued.

DJ,

Meen abu 7sein? Man, they won't stop settlements until they build them all the way from Iraq to Egypt.. trust me.. I wonder how much worse things have to get before they get better.

Paraglider,

Thank you for visiting and commenting. You're most gracious and kind. I hope you found the debate useful?

Mr Rosh,

I'm talking to a very knowledgeable American writer/blogger and she tells me a lot about how America is "hurting".. It's really very sad .. but you know.. I spent the summer of my 18th birthday in the USA and I learned a very important lesson from my African-American driving instructor. I was a fiery young teenager that challenged everything as a perfectionist idealist.. and all he could tell me was "life is unfair"...

even decades afterwards.. i still remember his lesson... "life is unfair".. and i value this lesson even though i failed my test :)

Dubai Jazz said...

BuJ,

I meant Abu Hussein Obama ;)

btw, I sent a link of this post (i hope you don't mind) to an American Jewish friend of mine, this is what he wrote to me in return:

Both Islam and Judaism are beautiful faiths both are flawed...When Arabs and Jews work together wonderful things happen in the world....As you know Islam was at first very close to the Jews. Then there was a clash and then in the early days of the Islamic Empire Jews and Muslims learned from each other. Muslims shamed Jews into giving more rights to women. Jews helped Muslims govern etc....When Europe was an un washed savage land their streets in Baghdad with Hundreds of books stores...Nothing was perfect nothing was golden but Arab and Jews need each other. BTW It was the Arabs who allowed Jews to return to Jerusalem in 637 CE...

Al-ain Rose said...

When Arabs and Jews work together wonderful things happen in the world.

Yeah I bet.
LMOA.

The Contentious Centrist said...

"As you know Islam was at first very close to the Jews."
___________

"The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism#Remarks_on_Jews

BuJ said...

DJ... thanks for that.. please feel free to send this post to as many Jewish friends as you can, what's the point of the Internet then?!

Maybe if we listened to the Holy Quran more we wouldn't be in this mess we're in, and will even the score a bit.

Dubai Jazz said...

Contentious Centrist,

That’s interesting. I think with 400 nuclear heads in Israel we can even bring the Day of Judgment even closer.

Dubai Jazz said...

BuJ,

There are plenty of open minded folks. I'm banking on them for better future for this region.

Others who chose to cherry-pick from wikipedia don't interest me in the least ;)

(although they could be amusing sometimes)

The Contentious Centrist said...

Dubai Jazz: "As you know Islam was at first very close to the Jews."

CC (begging to differ), provides some historical testimony that does not quite bear out this astonishing statement.

Dubai Jazz responds:

"That’s interesting. I think with 400 nuclear heads in Israel we can even bring the Day of Judgment even closer."

Intelligent readers should be able to realize the non-sequitur, irrelevant logic of DJ's answers. Nothing but bile comes out of his pen. No attempt at dealing with the demons of his own cultural heritage.

Dubai Jazz said...

CC,

I'd happily acknowledge the non sequiturs awards while imparting you with the strawmanship and cherry picking award.

Deal?

And btw, since you've mentioned it, it's the job of intelligent people to try to find common grounds and reduce the tone of hatred.

You might be comfortable sitting their holding your pseudo moral high grounds. But as I said before, delusions can do wonders to the level of intellect and attitudes of educated people.

Speaking of the 'demons in my own cultural heritage', let's have a look at the status quo of your own culture NOW (it wouldn't usually be intelligent to generalize, but given your polarized, self-righteous attitude, this generalization may well be applicable to you):

Beloved Chabad Rabbi Manis Friedman gave this answer: "I don't believe in Western morality, i.e., don't kill civilians or children, don't destroy holy sites, don't fight during holiday seasons, don't bomb cemeteries, don't shoot until they shoot first because it (Western morality) is immoral.

"The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle ). … Living by Torah values will make us a light unto the nations… ."


Care to expound upon the above text? find the moral justification for it maybe?

BuJ said...

DJ,

I couldn't agree more. Cherry-picking from the internet is probably the lowest form of academia.

Hate is such a bad thing especially when it is thinly disguised with a layer of badly concocted quotes!

Contrary to what others might want to believe. I do not hate Jews, but hate Zionists. There is a world of difference.

Let the record show that if I disagree with you DJ, you cannot call me an Islamaphobe, just as if I disagree with a person that happens to be Jewish, they cannot call me anti-Semetic.

Actually I am a Semite too, so are most Arabs!

The Contentious Centrist said...

"...it's the job of intelligent people to try to find common grounds and reduce the tone of hatred. "

And I suppose one way of reducing hatred is to lie about historical events, and publish the cartoons of of an artist who won a prize in a competition about caricaturizing the Holocaust.

Solomon2 said...

"Can't you follow up a simple straightforward logical argument without making outlandish connections between one set of facts and another, totally irrelevant set of facts?"

I think BuJ begins from a particular starting point: that Arabs, as represented by himself, stand 100% on the side of moral correctness and honor and that can never be questioned. Therefore if there's some sort of issue someone else must be at fault. Isn't that right, BuJ?

(BTW, is that a picture of you or Sean Connery?)

Dubai Jazz said...

Contentious Centrist,

So you can’t even explain to me why my holy sites should be destroyed? Or why my sisters and brothers and my little fox terrier shall all be killed?

If I’m to be killed, I deserve an explanation, no?

The Contentious Centrist said...

Who is going to destroy your holy sites, kill your brothers and sisters? Has Israel threatened to do so? Have I?

" September 2004

“The Hour [of Resurrection] will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them. The Muslims will kill the Jews, rejoice!”

Sheikh Ibrahim Mudayris, Head of Association for Memorizing the Quran, PA Ministry of Endowments & Religious Affairs, PA TV, September 10, 2004



· January 2005

“…and the rock and the tree will say: Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!”

Dr. Hassan Khater, founder of Al Quds Encyclopedia

PA TV, January 10, 2005"

Dubai Jazz said...

CC,

So you don't really want to kill my pet fox terrier?

Good.

But this guy does.

Beloved Chabad Rabbi Manis Friedman gave this answer: "I don't believe in Western morality, i.e., don't kill civilians or children, don't destroy holy sites, don't fight during holiday seasons, don't bomb cemeteries, don't shoot until they shoot first because it (Western morality) is immoral.

"The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle ). … Living by Torah values will make us a light unto the nations… ."


circa June 2009